DISQUS

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

The fact that "Evangelicals under 40" do not have the same values as the previous generation(s) says a lot more about the younger one, than it does the older. His comments about a more holisitic (usually a flashing red light, warning word, to me) approach to pro-life that might encompass things like being anti-war, basically reveal him to be completely immersed in modern culture, without having read any of the great (Christian) thinkers of the last 2,000 years. You know, like this guy named St. Augustine who set out the Just War Theory which has been accepted (if not actually followed) by almost all Christians over the last 1,500 years as setting out the basis for moral war.

Randy · 1 year ago

Do you think he might have meant whole-istic instead of holistic? Is wholeistic even a word?

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

Umm, no. Wholeisitic is not a word. Sorry, Randy.

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

Or wholeistic, or however it is(n't) spelled. :)

Randy · 1 year ago

you don't have to apologize to me. :)

Mark Baker-Wright · 1 year ago

It's actually nice to see such a civil conversation for a change. I'm sorry he pulled out, but I find myself very much respecting him as he does so.

Randy · 1 year ago

I agree on the civil conversation part and it worked. It obviously helped Mr. Strang figure out the difference between private civil dialog and public pronouncements with resulting implications. I am sure it was also a witness to Obama's staff in some measure.

I have no doubt the dialog will continue and now, oddly, he may have more of an influence since he changed his mind.

Hal · 1 year ago

I'm glad you posted this, Randy. I give him kudos for dropping out. I certainly understand the need to dialog with others in politics, but I think it was the right decision because of the perception of the opening prayer and given his public statement of being Republican. Though I wonder what might have been the reaction of the DNC if he had taken the opportunity to open in prayer beyond party with a call of repentance for the immorality of our nation and the Democratic part on subjects of infidelity, homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, and not following the true God come in the physical form of Jesus Christ?

Would that have been wrong? I guess it's an academic question.

When he referred to Don Miller, I wonder was he referring to Donald Miller of Blue Like Jazz fame?

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

"Though I wonder what might have been the reaction of the DNC if he had taken the opportunity to open in prayer beyond party with a call of repentance for the immorality of our nation and the Democratic part on subjects of infidelity, homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, and not following the true God come in the physical form of Jesus Christ?"

They would be absolutely appalled by the fact that they got a Christian prayer in the middle of a pulibc, political function that was supposed to respect the boundaries of Church and State.

Randy · 1 year ago

Good! Glad you appreciated the post and thank you for commenting.

I believe that a prayer is a conversation with God and not intended to preach anything to the people in the room. *Prayer* is talking directly to God, so, if God wanted people to confront the party I think they would be talking directly to the party. Example: Mother Theresa's confrontation of President Clinton at a state dinner over abortion. She did it forthrightly, not in the context of praying to God.

So, if the Lord led the person to pray for the party(ies) to repent ... then it would be ok. If not, they could be guilty of leaving God a spiritually veiled diatribe on his answering machine instead of actually talking to Him.

And yes, Don Miller author of Blue Like Jazz as well as Pastor Joel Hunter (from here in central Florida) will be there to pray. I heard somewhere that Don said that "Someone asks you to pray ... you pray."

Ok ... but ... what are their motives and your own for doing so ... so publicly? That's the rhetorical accountability question and who knows... God may want Don there and not Cameron ... I don't know.

Hal · 1 year ago

I'm not sure I totally agree with you on the prayer definition here, ie talking directly to God. Only because it's a public prayer where the people assembled are coming together in a collective fashion before God with one person leading them before God and speaking for all to God.

I mean, if this is the sort of praying that Christ referred to when He said to go into our closets and pray, then no one should be getting on the stage in prayer before God.

I'm just thinking off the cuff here, Randy, but I think it's important proclaim God's truth, in a loving way of course, and not to overlook willful sin. I don't know how one could go before God and ignore such sin. This goes for the whole nation just not the DNC.

Randy · 1 year ago

Well, that's true. Yet wether you are in the prayer closet or leading others ... you're talking to God. I didn't say you should ignore sin but does every Pastor point out all of the congregations sins for that week while praying the benediction?

I think a few Pastor's use it as opportunistic manipulation to preach at the congregation in the name of praying to God.

But as always, I trust the Spirit to lead prayers and if repentance, exhortation, words of knowledge ... any of the gifts ... arise ... go for it. If you are like the Prophetic Nathan ... do your thing. I fully support it.

Ellie · 1 year ago

The fact that "Evangelicals under 40" do not have the same values as the previous generation(s) says a lot more about the younger one, than it does the older. His comments about a more holisitic (usually a flashing red light, warning word, to me) approach to pro-life that might encompass things like being anti-war, basically reveal him to be completely immersed in modern culture, without having read any of the great (Christian) thinkers of the last 2,000 years. You know, like this guy named St. Augustine who set out the Just War Theory which has been accepted (if not actually followed) by almost all Christians over the last 1,500 years as setting out the basis for moral war.

Randy · 1 year ago

Do you think he might have meant whole-istic instead of holistic? Is wholeistic even a word?

Ellie · 1 year ago

Umm, no. Wholeisitic is not a word. Sorry, Randy.

Ellie · 1 year ago

Or wholeistic, or however it is(n't) spelled. :)

Randy · 1 year ago

you don't have to apologize to me. :)

Mark Baker-Wright · 1 year ago

It's actually nice to see such a civil conversation for a change. I'm sorry he pulled out, but I find myself very much respecting him as he does so.

Hal · 1 year ago

I'm glad you posted this, Randy. I give him kudos for dropping out. I certainly understand the need to dialog with others in politics, but I think it was the right decision because of the perception of the opening prayer and given his public statement of being Republican. Though I wonder what might have been the reaction of the DNC if he had taken the opportunity to open in prayer beyond party with a call of repentance for the immorality of our nation and the Democratic part on subjects of infidelity, homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, and not following the true God come in the physical form of Jesus Christ?


Would that have been wrong? I guess it's an academic question.



When he referred to Don Miller, I wonder was he referring to Donald Miller of Blue Like Jazz fame?

Ellie · 1 year ago

"Though I wonder what might have been the reaction of the DNC if he had taken the opportunity to open in prayer beyond party with a call of repentance for the immorality of our nation and the Democratic part on subjects of infidelity, homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, and not following the true God come in the physical form of Jesus Christ?"


They would be absolutely appalled by the fact that they got a Christian prayer in the middle of a pulibc, political function that was supposed to respect the boundaries of Church and State.

Randy · 1 year ago

I agree on the civil conversation part and it worked. It obviously helped Mr. Strang figure out the difference between private civil dialog and public pronouncements with resulting implications. I am sure it was also a witness to Obama's staff in some measure.


I have no doubt the dialog will continue and now, oddly, he may have more of an influence since he changed his mind.

Randy · 1 year ago

Good! Glad you appreciated the post and thank you for commenting.


I believe that a prayer is a conversation with God and not intended to preach anything to the people in the room. *Prayer* is talking directly to God, so, if God wanted people to confront the party I think they would be talking directly to the party. Example: Mother Theresa's confrontation of President Clinton at a state dinner over abortion. She did it forthrightly, not in the context of praying to God.



So, if the Lord led the person to pray for the party(ies) to repent ... then it would be ok. If not, they could be guilty of leaving God a spiritually veiled diatribe on his answering machine instead of actually talking to Him.



And yes, Don Miller author of Blue Like Jazz as well as Pastor Joel Hunter (from here in central Florida) will be there to pray. I heard somewhere that Don said that "Someone asks you to pray ... you pray."



Ok ... but ... what are their motives and your own for doing so ... so publicly? That's the rhetorical accountability question and who knows... God may want Don there and not Cameron ... I don't know.

Hal · 1 year ago

I'm not sure I totally agree with you on the prayer definition here, ie talking directly to God. Only because it's a public prayer where the people assembled are coming together in a collective fashion before God with one person leading them before God and speaking for all to God.


I mean, if this is the sort of praying that Christ referred to when He said to go into our closets and pray, then no one should be getting on the stage in prayer before God.



I'm just thinking off the cuff here, Randy, but I think it's important proclaim God's truth, in a loving way of course, and not to overlook willful sin. I don't know how one could go before God and ignore such sin. This goes for the whole nation just not the DNC.

Randy · 1 year ago

Well, that's true. Yet wether you are in the prayer closet or leading others ... you're talking to God. I didn't say you should ignore sin but does every Pastor point out all of the congregations sins for that week while praying the benediction?


I think a few Pastor's use it as opportunistic manipulation to preach at the congregation in the name of praying to God.



But as always, I trust the Spirit to lead prayers and if repentance, exhortation, words of knowledge ... any of the gifts ... arise ... go for it. If you are like the Prophetic Nathan ... do your thing. I fully support it.

Donald Miller Video Interview · 1 year ago

[...] Cameron Strang cancelled his appearance and recommended Don Miller take his place. He did and the above video was taped before he gave the closing prayer. [...]