DISQUS

Jonathan · 1 year ago

Given Hutcherson's comments and rather hard-lined stand on homosexuality this is not shocking. Sad, but not shocking.

j.

Mike Ensley · 1 year ago

I think it's telling that those supposedly espousing tolerance are in such short supply themselves. But I agree, it's not surprising.

Brady · 1 year ago

Mike- I'm hoping (and assuming) that not everyone "supposedly espousing tolerance" behaves like this. There are plenty (and I'd think the majority) that preach tolerance and practice their preaching.

Randy · 1 year ago

I agree with Jonathan and Mike about it not being surprising. Maybe not so much about Hutch's "hard line" stance being the cause but rather it seems that some "liberal" folks are the new legalistic harbingers of condemnation.

Brady - do you know of anyone in the pro-gay tolerant crowd denouncing this behavior toward Hutch? I would look for it but I don't have time at the moment. Do you think they should denounce this rude behavior?

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- I don't know of anyone denouncing the behavior, but then again, I've only read your take on it here and one take over at Box Turtle Bulletin, so I can't say that people aren't denouncing it based on that little coverage.

I guess my concern is the people in the story harassing Hutch don't seem to be activists--just regular people (and very possibly kids) making poor choices.

To me, Mike's comment seems to be throwing everyone in the same pile--those who want tolerance and act accordingly and those who don't. The first story here is about 2 teachers behaving innappropriately at an assembly full of people (maybe a couple of hundred?). So, judging the couple of hundred by the actions of 2 seems kind of harsh.

As for the harassment, it's sad to hear, but again, this appears to be the action of a small minority from what I can tell. I'm just opposed to having that kind of behavior tied to someone like me. I disagree with Hutch and I am pro-tolerance, but I don't like the idea of being coupled with people like this, and that's where Mike's comment feels like it's going from my POV.

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- just followed a link from BTB mentioned above, and it's a pro-gay blogger condemning the harassment: Pam's House Blend

Randy · 1 year ago

Well, I don't think Mike's statement is harsh. I read the post you linked to and forgive me but ... saying that it isn't right to harass the family but they shouldn't be surprised because Ken is a homobigot (how the post is tagged) among other things kind of defeats the purpose.

If you have to call people names to get people to stop calling people names ... kind of hypocritical to me.

to say Hutch can't speak to Civil Rights issues because he doesn't believe gay worldview issues are the same is in itself closed minded and intolerant.

He is a black man who grew up in the segregated South and suffered true hatred and crimes simply for being black. For him to be shouted down like this is incredibly offensive if not outright bigoted. The reason I am friends with Hutch and deeply respect him has little to do with his stand on gay issues. He told me his overall testimony and it is *sad* that these kids were robbed of him being able to speak to MLK and civil rights. That is not his fault, it is the intolerant rude teachers fault.

I find it disturbing that there is this "yeah they shouldn't be doing this ...but it shouldn't be a surprise." Why shouldn't it be a surprise? Civility and thoughtfulness sorely needs role modeling today and it is obvious these teachers don't feel the need to teach that lesson.

wow... I totally didn't mean to get on that soapbox. Sorry if it sounds harsh...it isn't personal.

Clay · 1 year ago

Sorry, folks, but I think Hutcherson is getting exactly what he deserves. It appears to me that he can dish it out but simply can't take it.

The school made a horrible mistake in inviting him to speak at an MLK assembly. He has NO credibility in the area of civil rights because he doesn't truly believe in civil rights for all. Quite frankly, I find it appalling that anyone who suffered because of prejudice advocates for discrimination against another group.

If he doesn't want to be branded as a bigot and a homophobe, then he should not make bigoted and homophobic remarks!

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- I deeply disagree with Hutch and think him to be very misguided. However, I will take your points about him and concede (which I already have) these people are out of line.

One side point, Pam never actually called Hutch any names in her post. Her commenters maybe, but the topic of the post was about how out of line these harassers were. She did mention several reasons she opposed him, but particular article never went ad hom on Hutch.

I guess this comment is more directed at Mike, but the comment he made made it sound as if everyone, or at the very least the majority, of people that are pro-gay behave like this, which they don't. That's my beef in a nutshell.

I realize you disagree--just wanted to clarify that my beef was about the comment itself rather than my view of Hutch.

Jonathan · 1 year ago

Given Hutcherson's comments and rather hard-lined stand on homosexuality this is not shocking. Sad, but not shocking.
j.

Mike Ensley · 1 year ago

I think it's telling that those supposedly espousing tolerance are in such short supply themselves. But I agree, it's not surprising.

Randy · 1 year ago

Well she "tagged" her post with "homobigot". Meaning she must have a category of people she calls homobigots. I didn't click on the tag but if it's like any other blog out there, it would bring up all the posts she has tagged with that same tag. She didn't call him that in her post but she put that tag on it meaning that is the category she files posts about him in.

Don't you just love html? It almost turns the written word into a three dimensional living thing.

Mike can speak for himself with regard to the generalization. I agree that it is a generalization but I didn't see it as harsh. Maybe that's because I see Mike everyday and he just isn't a harsh kind of guy.

As always, thanks for joining in the conversation. I appreciate your comments Brady.

Well, most of the time ;-)

Scott · 1 year ago

Well I'm glad you've heard Ken's testimony, Randy, but it seems to me that most of us haven't.

I don't think jumping into bed with Scott Lively or claiming that he was speaking in Latvia for the White House is something Jesus would have done.

I'm sure he's sincere in his beliefs but I also think he needs to articulate them in a more Christian way.

People don't come to Jesus because of threats (like he's issued against Microsoft) and they sure don't like people who associate with frauds like Scott Lively.

Randy · 1 year ago

OMG(osh)! You actually posted a comment that was ... almost thoughtful! Thank you!

Although, I don't know Scott Lively, only talked to him once (six years ago?) ... you seem to not like him much. I am not sure why you called him a fraud so please use your own blog to make that case.

As for what Jesus would do? It's hard to know sometimes. Jesus called people vipers and dead whitewashed tombs. He even had quite a temper about the moneychangers in the temple. Most of His outbursts were toward the religious leaders so I will admit that. Bill Gates isn't wearing Temple Robes and reading the Torah. At the same time, Jesus is ... you know ... God. He tended to do the right thing regardless of what He might have been tempted by.

Hutch is an imperfect man and whether one agrees with him or his approach or not, to do nothing but attack the man personally instead of making your own case for your own beliefs is a cop out in my humble opinion. To shut down hearing more from him is a tragedy. He is one of the kindest men I have ever met. I saw him do an amazing random act of kindness one time and maybe I will share that in a blog post. Anyway, it's midnight, see ya'll tomorrow.

Brady · 1 year ago

Mike- I'm hoping (and assuming) that not everyone "supposedly espousing tolerance" behaves like this. There are plenty (and I'd think the majority) that preach tolerance and practice their preaching.

Randy · 1 year ago

I agree with Jonathan and Mike about it not being surprising. Maybe not so much about Hutch's "hard line" stance being the cause but rather it seems that some "liberal" folks are the new legalistic harbingers of condemnation.
Brady - do you know of anyone in the pro-gay tolerant crowd denouncing this behavior toward Hutch? I would look for it but I don't have time at the moment. Do you think they should denounce this rude behavior?

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- I don't know of anyone denouncing the behavior, but then again, I've only read your take on it here and one take over at Box Turtle Bulletin, so I can't say that people aren't denouncing it based on that little coverage.
I guess my concern is the people in the story harassing Hutch don't seem to be activists--just regular people (and very possibly kids) making poor choices.
To me, Mike's comment seems to be throwing everyone in the same pile--those who want tolerance and act accordingly and those who don't. The first story here is about 2 teachers behaving innappropriately at an assembly full of people (maybe a couple of hundred?). So, judging the couple of hundred by the actions of 2 seems kind of harsh.
As for the harassment, it's sad to hear, but again, this appears to be the action of a small minority from what I can tell. I'm just opposed to having that kind of behavior tied to someone like me. I disagree with Hutch and I am pro-tolerance, but I don't like the idea of being coupled with people like this, and that's where Mike's comment feels like it's going from my POV.

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- just followed a link from BTB mentioned above, and it's a pro-gay blogger condemning the harassment: Pam's House Blend

Randy · 1 year ago

Well, I don't think Mike's statement is harsh. I read the post you linked to and forgive me but ... saying that it isn't right to harass the family but they shouldn't be surprised because Ken is a homobigot (how the post is tagged) among other things kind of defeats the purpose.
If you have to call people names to get people to stop calling people names ... kind of hypocritical to me.
to say Hutch can't speak to Civil Rights issues because he doesn't believe gay worldview issues are the same is in itself closed minded and intolerant.
He is a black man who grew up in the segregated South and suffered true hatred and crimes simply for being black. For him to be shouted down like this is incredibly offensive if not outright bigoted. The reason I am friends with Hutch and deeply respect him has little to do with his stand on gay issues. He told me his overall testimony and it is *sad* that these kids were robbed of him being able to speak to MLK and civil rights. That is not his fault, it is the intolerant rude teachers fault.
I find it disturbing that there is this "yeah they shouldn't be doing this ...but it shouldn't be a surprise." Why shouldn't it be a surprise? Civility and thoughtfulness sorely needs role modeling today and it is obvious these teachers don't feel the need to teach that lesson.
wow... I totally didn't mean to get on that soapbox. Sorry if it sounds harsh...it isn't personal.

Clay · 1 year ago

Sorry, folks, but I think Hutcherson is getting exactly what he deserves. It appears to me that he can dish it out but simply can't take it.
The school made a horrible mistake in inviting him to speak at an MLK assembly. He has NO credibility in the area of civil rights because he doesn't truly believe in civil rights for all. Quite frankly, I find it appalling that anyone who suffered because of prejudice advocates for discrimination against another group.
If he doesn't want to be branded as a bigot and a homophobe, then he should not make bigoted and homophobic remarks!

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- I deeply disagree with Hutch and think him to be very misguided. However, I will take your points about him and concede (which I already have) these people are out of line.
One side point, Pam never actually called Hutch any names in her post. Her commenters maybe, but the topic of the post was about how out of line these harassers were. She did mention several reasons she opposed him, but particular article never went ad hom on Hutch.
I guess this comment is more directed at Mike, but the comment he made made it sound as if everyone, or at the very least the majority, of people that are pro-gay behave like this, which they don't. That's my beef in a nutshell.
I realize you disagree--just wanted to clarify that my beef was about the comment itself rather than my view of Hutch.

Randy · 1 year ago

Well she "tagged" her post with "homobigot". Meaning she must have a category of people she calls homobigots. I didn't click on the tag but if it's like any other blog out there, it would bring up all the posts she has tagged with that same tag. She didn't call him that in her post but she put that tag on it meaning that is the category she files posts about him in.
Don't you just love html? It almost turns the written word into a three dimensional living thing.
Mike can speak for himself with regard to the generalization. I agree that it is a generalization but I didn't see it as harsh. Maybe that's because I see Mike everyday and he just isn't a harsh kind of guy.
As always, thanks for joining in the conversation. I appreciate your comments Brady.
Well, most of the time ;-)

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- fair enough. I didn't see the tag until now, glad you pointed it out. As for Mike--you're right, you are certainly in a position to know what his intentions were better than me. My comments were obviously as an outsider (but maybe that's something that carries some weight in an online discussion...).

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. I'm sure I'll be back ;-)

Scott · 1 year ago

Well I'm glad you've heard Ken's testimony, Randy, but it seems to me that most of us haven't.
I don't think jumping into bed with Scott Lively or claiming that he was speaking in Latvia for the White House is something Jesus would have done.
I'm sure he's sincere in his beliefs but I also think he needs to articulate them in a more Christian way.
People don't come to Jesus because of threats (like he's issued against Microsoft) and they sure don't like people who associate with frauds like Scott Lively.

Randy · 1 year ago

OMG(osh)! You actually posted a comment that was ... almost thoughtful! Thank you!
Although, I don't know Scott Lively, only talked to him once (six years ago?) ... you seem to not like him much. I am not sure why you called him a fraud so please use your own blog to make that case.
As for what Jesus would do? It's hard to know sometimes. Jesus called people vipers and dead whitewashed tombs. He even had quite a temper about the moneychangers in the temple. Most of His outbursts were toward the religious leaders so I will admit that. Bill Gates isn't wearing Temple Robes and reading the Torah. At the same time, Jesus is ... you know ... God. He tended to do the right thing regardless of what He might have been tempted by.
Hutch is an imperfect man and whether one agrees with him or his approach or not, to do nothing but attack the man personally instead of making your own case for your own beliefs is a cop out in my humble opinion. To shut down hearing more from him is a tragedy. He is one of the kindest men I have ever met. I saw him do an amazing random act of kindness one time and maybe I will share that in a blog post. Anyway, it's midnight, see ya'll tomorrow.

Mike Ensley · 1 year ago

Brady-- in regards to my comment here, I was referring to the people in this particular story who were behaving in such a hypocritical manner. I think it's a stretch to infer I was making a generalization about all people who espouse tolerance--after all, I consider myself an advocate of true tolerance.

Randy · 1 year ago

...but maybe that’s something that carries some weight in an online discussion…

Sure it does, thanks for pointing out your observation. I am glad you will be back.

Brady · 1 year ago

Randy- fair enough. I didn't see the tag until now, glad you pointed it out. As for Mike--you're right, you are certainly in a position to know what his intentions were better than me. My comments were obviously as an outsider (but maybe that's something that carries some weight in an online discussion...).
Anyway, thanks for the discussion. I'm sure I'll be back ;-)

Standing Above Reproach &middo · 1 year ago

[...] was invited to speak at Mount Si High School in observance of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. KOMO TV reports that two teachers booed Hutcherson, who is known for espousing anti-gay attitudes, at the [...]

Mike Ensley · 1 year ago

Brady-- in regards to my comment here, I was referring to the people in this particular story who were behaving in such a hypocritical manner. I think it's a stretch to infer I was making a generalization about all people who espouse tolerance--after all, I consider myself an advocate of true tolerance.

Randy · 1 year ago

...but maybe that’s something that carries some weight in an online discussion…

Sure it does, thanks for pointing out your observation. I am glad you will be back.

PDub · 1 year ago

You cannot tolerate that with which you agree. You can only tolerate that with which you disagree. Therefore, the greatest example of tolerance is allowing that with which you disagree the same courtesy as that with which you agree.

Truly this is what Christ demonstrated and preached. He asks us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Is this not true tolerance, no, true love?

Another opportunity for love is when we notice the shortcomings of others and treat them as we would like to be treated when our shortcomings are on display. Perhaps Hutch has some shortcomings when he discusses his stance on homosexuality. I don't really know.

The real tragedy is that people who feel that they have been wronged respond in an unseemly way through harassment or booing.

PDub · 1 year ago

You cannot tolerate that with which you agree. You can only tolerate that with which you disagree. Therefore, the greatest example of tolerance is allowing that with which you disagree the same courtesy as that with which you agree.
Truly this is what Christ demonstrated and preached. He asks us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Is this not true tolerance, no, true love?
Another opportunity for love is when we notice the shortcomings of others and treat them as we would like to be treated when our shortcomings are on display. Perhaps Hutch has some shortcomings when he discusses his stance on homosexuality. I don't really know.
The real tragedy is that people who feel that they have been wronged respond in an unseemly way through harassment or booing.

Randy · 1 year ago

You cannot tolerate that with which you agree. You can only tolerate that with which you disagree. Therefore, the greatest example of tolerance is allowing that with which you disagree the same courtesy as that with which you agree.

Loved your whole comment but I especially loved that succinct definition of tolerance.

Randy · 1 year ago

You cannot tolerate that with which you agree. You can only tolerate that with which you disagree. Therefore, the greatest example of tolerance is allowing that with which you disagree the same courtesy as that with which you agree.

Loved your whole comment but I especially loved that succinct definition of tolerance.