ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected - Latest Comments in No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

Avoiding Controversy « El — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:55:37 -0000

[...] 11, 2008 at 4:55 pm (Culture) Disparate people have been talking about what our post-prop 8 reactions should be. Â The internal discussion [...]

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

California Courts Continue to — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:41:16 -0000

[...] originally wrote in a comment on this post [...]

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

Pomo — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:39:00 -0000

Nope, no real expectation. No worries.

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Election Night LIVE BLOGGING!! — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:20:01 -0000

[...] from the below transcript but if you really want to have a broader look at my overall impression. Read this post too. [...]

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 23:07:50 -0000

Well, I am glad for that :)

Pomo, as you know, a lot of (if not most) friendships in life aren't really very deep and/or simply come and go. I enjoyed talking with you but you seemed to have a better friendship with others and I was glad for that. I knew of some of your struggles or concerns but you took them to others and I was glad you could go to them. So, when you weren't around there wasn't a compelling "need" within me to catch up or chase you down.

However, if you had an expectation that I should have pursued our friendship more and I blew that expectation ... for whatever part of that I need to take responsibility for ... I certainly apologize.

Regardless of where you are in your journey or beliefs, I would still hope to call you friend. And that is the truth.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:55:16 -0000

That is a very good reminder B.T.

I don't know.... I think if I had been gay over the summer and wanted to marry, I don't know that I would have seen it as a gamble even with the potential outcomes changing, I probably would have allowed my hope to justify doing it believe that CA would not allow Prop 8 to pass. That doesn't invalidate your points, I am just saying I don't know that they would have thought it a purposeful gamble but more of a hopeful desire.

Am I splitting hairs? :)

... and I am right there with you in regard to "trust" in the courts.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:49:46 -0000

I knew some wouldn't understand and I am truly apologetic if I came off sanctimonious. That is not how I want to be.

You quoted me as saying "sorry" twice. I didn't say that in the original post and can't remember when I said it that way. Please show me where I said that and I will be glad to clarify in hopes to not sound so sanctimonious.

Plus, I don't think I have ever "ridiculed" or "deprecated" their love, life or relationships. I used to live, love and have gay relationships. I know the investment, dreams and hopes. Now that I have different moral views and completely different life goals. I do try to be honest in saying what they are but I would never do so in a ridiculing manner. At the same time, I can't prevent others seeing moral disagreements in such light even though I do try to afford dignity and respect wherever possible when I talk about those opposing views.

Plus, I have zero desire to punish anyone. Even though you judge my beliefs as hateful, that doesn't mean I am. I don't and won't hate you.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

B.T.Carolus — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:05:00 -0000

And it should be added that the pro-prop 8 folks asked the supreme court to stop any same sex marriages from taking place until after the election, so that this problem would be avoided. They refused to do so, and the couples that married did so knowing that there was a chance the amendment would pass. So in that sense they purposefully took a gamble, and it didn't pay off (although it will if previously married couples decide to sue and judges somehow contrive to find in their favor and rule the amendment invalid [yeah, I know it can't happen, but I also don't trust the courts anymore]).

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

Hugo — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:17:43 -0000

How sanctimonious can you get? TYopu claim to feel "sorry" for people you sought to hurt, who youintnetionally sought to defame in the most deep way by ridiculing and deprecating their love, life and relationships.

Because the gays dared to stand for their rights, you feel the need to punish them and now when they lay beatn, you feel "sorry" for them. taker responsibility for once for your hatred, you closet case.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

Pomo — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 19:50:08 -0000

RYC, "former friend" was probably not the best choice of words. I meant former in the sense that we don't really talk anymore. Not that if our paths crossed that i would just ignore you or something. I'm not like that. While I certinly disagree with your support of the FL prop and don't think it was very Jesus-like, I still spend alot of time defending ya'll. To be honest I don't know how long thats gonna last but as of now, I still do it...

As for bailing out, I didn't go anywhere. Ya'll didn't give effort to stay in touch. Neither did I. That sounds pretty mutual to me. That doesn't mean we're not acquaintences. I would come up and say hi anytime I saw you or the others.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

Pomo — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:39:00 -0000

Nope, no real expectation. No worries.

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RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:07:50 -0000

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RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:55:16 -0000

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:49:46 -0000

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

BTCarolus — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:05:00 -0000

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Hugo — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 12:17:43 -0000

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Pomo — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:50:08 -0000

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC (Randy Thomas) — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:05:25 -0000

No Gloating Zone - Weird Mix of Emotions http://tinyurl.com/5mteuv The Morning After The Election Initial Thoughts http://tinyurl.com/5t3mlj

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 04:40:01 -0000

That is something to consider Jack. Thanks for adding your thoughts. It is good to see you.

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RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 04:39:48 -0000

That is something to consider Jack. Thanks for adding your thoughts. It is good to see you.

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Jack Yan — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 03:13:45 -0000

I understand your feelings on the issue, Randy. It is hard not to feel some sympathy for any couple, straight or gay, whose unionâ€™s recognition has suddenly changed. I always felt that in the California case, where I have read the judgements, the majority judges were not clever enough. If they had an agenda to legalize gay marriage, then their interpretation of the law left matters open to future attacks. Unlike the precedent that some relied upon (Perez) where the legislature had been clumsy (intentionally?), California law was far clearer. You are right that in the case of California, it gave same-sex couples false expectations over the definition of marriage.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:18:27 -0000

Nevermind... I found it. I will need to correct the person who sent me that email. Thanks for bringing that up.

Regardless...that's a LOT of people.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:15:43 -0000

I saw 66,000... where did you see 18,000?

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 01:49:23 -0000

Judge Napolitano on FOX News says that a government can't take away a right that it has previously given without due compensation. He isn't exactly sure what the courts will end up doing but he believes that those marriages will have to be treated as such until the courts change the outcome or for the life of those unions. Regardless, this still puts those couples in legal limbo.

Re: No Gloating Zone - A Weird Mix of Emotions

RThomasETC — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:30:53 -0000

The short answer is no. If it isn't valid in the home state it won't be recognized as valid in another.