Silly Randy. Don't you know that the "American Taliban" here is just as ruthless as the regime in Iran?
Joking aside, this is good to see.
Randy
· 1 year ago
::: rolleyes :::
:)
Steve
· 1 year ago
Don't roll your eyes at me, mister.
Randy
· 1 year ago
::: laugh :::
Steve
· 1 year ago
Silly Randy. Don't you know that the "American Taliban" here is just as ruthless as the regime in Iran? Joking aside, this is good to see.
Randy
· 1 year ago
::: rolleyes ::: :)
Steve
· 1 year ago
Don't roll your eyes at me, mister.
Randy
· 1 year ago
::: laugh :::
Brian
· 1 year ago
I couldn't really make out much from the video, but "Oy!" nonetheless. Iran is a scary place to be Christian and/or gay.
Brian
· 1 year ago
I couldn't really make out much from the video, but "Oy!" nonetheless. Iran is a scary place to be Christian and/or gay.
B.T.Carolus
· 1 year ago
"Iran is a scary place to be Christian and/or gay."
or a woman, or a journalist, or someone who values freedom...
Randy
· 1 year ago
Very good points Ellie. I think it is more dangerous to be a woman over there.
B.T.Carolus
· 1 year ago
I don't know about *more* dangerous. I believe that openly Christian or openly gay Iranians are actually at risk of death (via the official government!), while it's not actually illegal to be a woman (although certainly not recommended).
What is worse, I think, is the psychological damage that comes from being forced to abide by the extreme mandates of that society (being targeted by modesty police for example) and not being able to protect yourself from violence or ill treatment at the hands of men unless (or in spite of) living a life completely within the confines of your own home only to leave in the company of male relatives. I wonder what the effect of damaging half of the population that way will ultimately be. Especially since it's the half raising the children.
Ellie
· 1 year ago
"Iran is a scary place to be Christian and/or gay." or a woman, or a journalist, or someone who values freedom...
Brian
· 1 year ago
Amen Ellie!
Randy
· 1 year ago
Very good points Ellie. I think it is more dangerous to be a woman over there.
Ellie
· 1 year ago
I don't know about *more* dangerous. I believe that openly Christian or openly gay Iranians are actually at risk of death (via the official government!), while it's not actually illegal to be a woman (although certainly not recommended). What is worse, I think, is the psychological damage that comes from being forced to abide by the extreme mandates of that society (being targeted by modesty police for example) and not being able to protect yourself from violence or ill treatment at the hands of men unless (or in spite of) living a life completely within the confines of your own home only to leave in the company of male relatives. I wonder what the effect of damaging half of the population that way will ultimately be. Especially since it's the half raising the children.
Randy
· 1 year ago
Ellie, are you a journalist? You ask good questions like ...
I wonder what the effect of damaging half of the population that way will ultimately be. Especially since it’s the half raising the children.
First, I like your whole comment and point taken. In an attempt to briefly answer to your question... I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated.
A friend of mine, Janelle Hallman, once said that Biblical gender identity is very complex but one of the complementary attributes that women and men have toward each other is that women represent power and men authority.
One without the other is a tremendous societal force but they will never succeed (as a society) without the appreciation of each other distinctly and interdependently (with all gender complementary attributes, not just the one I highlighted above.)
This has been going on in the Middle East for ages and as hyper unchecked "authority" (masculine trait according to my friend's hypothesis) crushes true "power" (feminine trait according to my friend) the apparent result in this case is small minded relationally deprived and ignorant fascists that do not value life or community.
God was so magnificent to create male and female, equally, in His image. They reflect God wonderfully within their own gender but together, they reflect God in a way that neither can do alone.
That's why, as a man, I find it horrific the way they treat women over there. It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe.
Brian
· 1 year ago
Amen Ellie!
B.T.Carolus
· 1 year ago
No, I'm not a journalist...I'm a senior at CalState LA (and I don't work for the campus newspaper).
"I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated." You are right, this type of treatment has been occuring for longer than the Iranian government has been around. Essentially we are seeing, in many countries, the accumulation of hundreds (or thousands)of years of aligning their societies around the suppression of women.
"It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe." But if Muslim societies have erred on the side of too much male authority and enforced "modesty," which I think is really the enforced hiding of female beauty, then has our society adopted the opposite traditions and turned out right? I think that right now women have become completely obsessed with proving they are better than men (which is a silly and perhaps impossible thing to do) at the expense of both gender's happiness. And women have mistaken sex and sexiness for beauty, leading them to act in ways that are really damaging to them.
Randy
· 1 year ago
well, you ask great questions for not being a journalist. :)
I completely agree with you on all points. Without complementary interdependence the war of the sexes will continue. Since we don't live in perfection until we are with Christ, we can look forward to allllll kinds of manifesting problems in all of humanity. Not just limited to the brief hypothetical glimpse of my bad paraphrase of a good friend as applied to the middle east.
We in the west have done the same disservice as those in the middle east in the sense that instead of head to toe isolation of the female image and oppressing her power, there is this head to toe sexual objectification of the female image (and the beginnings of the same for men.)
At the same time I would say that we in the West are better than the middle East with regard to complementarity interdependence. I don't know what you mean by "right" as a society...that is a big scope of a word where a large society can't be perfectly "right." That said we do have respected women in leadership on every level in public and private sectors. I think that is a great sign of a healthy society.
Plus, we in the west aren't just limited to men abusing women ... women can be abusive toward men too.
Anyway, didn't mean to get all into that but I am enjoying the conversation. Thanks Ellie.
Brian
· 1 year ago
I agree with Randy, you really do have a way with words.
Randy
· 1 year ago
Ellie, are you a journalist? You ask good questions like ...
I wonder what the effect of damaging half of the population that way will ultimately be. Especially since it’s the half raising the children.
First, I like your whole comment and point taken. In an attempt to briefly answer to your question... I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated. A friend of mine, Janelle Hallman, once said that Biblical gender identity is very complex but one of the complementary attributes that women and men have toward each other is that women represent power and men authority. One without the other is a tremendous societal force but they will never succeed (as a society) without the appreciation of each other distinctly and interdependently (with all gender complementary attributes, not just the one I highlighted above.) This has been going on in the Middle East for ages and as hyper unchecked "authority" (masculine trait according to my friend's hypothesis) crushes true "power" (feminine trait according to my friend) the apparent result in this case is small minded relationally deprived and ignorant fascists that do not value life or community. God was so magnificent to create male and female, equally, in His image. They reflect God wonderfully within their own gender but together, they reflect God in a way that neither can do alone. That's why, as a man, I find it horrific the way they treat women over there. It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe.
Ellie
· 1 year ago
No, I'm not a journalist...I'm a senior at CalState LA (and I don't work for the campus newspaper). "I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated." You are right, this type of treatment has been occuring for longer than the Iranian government has been around. Essentially we are seeing, in many countries, the accumulation of hundreds (or thousands)of years of aligning their societies around the suppression of women. "It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe." But if Muslim societies have erred on the side of too much male authority and enforced "modesty," which I think is really the enforced hiding of female beauty, then has our society adopted the opposite traditions and turned out right? I think that right now women have become completely obsessed with proving they are better than men (which is a silly and perhaps impossible thing to do) at the expense of both gender's happiness. And women have mistaken sex and sexiness for beauty, leading them to act in ways that are really damaging to them.
Randy
· 1 year ago
well, you ask great questions for not being a journalist. :) I completely agree with you on all points. Without complementary interdependence the war of the sexes will continue. Since we don't live in perfection until we are with Christ, we can look forward to allllll kinds of manifesting problems in all of humanity. Not just limited to the brief hypothetical glimpse of my bad paraphrase of a good friend as applied to the middle east. We in the west have done the same disservice as those in the middle east in the sense that instead of head to toe isolation of the female image and oppressing her power, there is this head to toe sexual objectification of the female image (and the beginnings of the same for men.) At the same time I would say that we in the West are better than the middle East with regard to complementarity interdependence. I don't know what you mean by "right" as a society...that is a big scope of a word where a large society can't be perfectly "right." That said we do have respected women in leadership on every level in public and private sectors. I think that is a great sign of a healthy society. Plus, we in the west aren't just limited to men abusing women ... women can be abusive toward men too. Anyway, didn't mean to get all into that but I am enjoying the conversation. Thanks Ellie.
B.T.Carolus
· 1 year ago
Thanks Brian!
B.T.Carolus
· 1 year ago
I agree that humans will never be able to actually come up with a perfect society (certainly not on our own on earth), but I think that we have an obligation to try to create a society in which everyone is given the chance to be treated properly, to treat themself properly, and to treat others in the same way.
"Plus, we in the west aren’t just limited to men abusing women … women can be abusive toward men too." That was one of my points. Because of feminism, it seems that the idea of competing with men, slurring and belittling them, and trying to get everything we can in order to make up for years of 'patriarchy.' has had a huge impact on the way young males view their role in our society. Witness the male:female ratio in college enrollment as one example.
Also, I would like to point out that this is proof that people can carry on a meaningful conversation about a topic on which they mostly agree. So many blogs wind up with huge arguments about controversial subjects and no comments on posts where it would be possible to have a positive conversation. Which is just depressing.
Brian
· 1 year ago
I agree with Randy, you really do have a way with words.
Randy
· 1 year ago
Great Ellie. I hope that this is a place to have civil positive conversations. It's not always easy but I keep trying.
Ellie
· 1 year ago
Thanks Brian!
Ellie
· 1 year ago
I agree that humans will never be able to actually come up with a perfect society (certainly not on our own on earth), but I think that we have an obligation to try to create a society in which everyone is given the chance to be treated properly, to treat themself properly, and to treat others in the same way. "Plus, we in the west aren’t just limited to men abusing women … women can be abusive toward men too." That was one of my points. Because of feminism, it seems that the idea of competing with men, slurring and belittling them, and trying to get everything we can in order to make up for years of 'patriarchy.' has had a huge impact on the way young males view their role in our society. Witness the male:female ratio in college enrollment as one example. Also, I would like to point out that this is proof that people can carry on a meaningful conversation about a topic on which they mostly agree. So many blogs wind up with huge arguments about controversial subjects and no comments on posts where it would be possible to have a positive conversation. Which is just depressing.
Randy
· 1 year ago
Great Ellie. I hope that this is a place to have civil positive conversations. It's not always easy but I keep trying.
All Comments
Joking aside, this is good to see.
:)
Joking aside, this is good to see.
:)
or a woman, or a journalist, or someone who values freedom...
What is worse, I think, is the psychological damage that comes from being forced to abide by the extreme mandates of that society (being targeted by modesty police for example) and not being able to protect yourself from violence or ill treatment at the hands of men unless (or in spite of) living a life completely within the confines of your own home only to leave in the company of male relatives. I wonder what the effect of damaging half of the population that way will ultimately be. Especially since it's the half raising the children.
or a woman, or a journalist, or someone who values freedom...
What is worse, I think, is the psychological damage that comes from being forced to abide by the extreme mandates of that society (being targeted by modesty police for example) and not being able to protect yourself from violence or ill treatment at the hands of men unless (or in spite of) living a life completely within the confines of your own home only to leave in the company of male relatives. I wonder what the effect of damaging half of the population that way will ultimately be. Especially since it's the half raising the children.
First, I like your whole comment and point taken. In an attempt to briefly answer to your question... I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated.
A friend of mine, Janelle Hallman, once said that Biblical gender identity is very complex but one of the complementary attributes that women and men have toward each other is that women represent power and men authority.
One without the other is a tremendous societal force but they will never succeed (as a society) without the appreciation of each other distinctly and interdependently (with all gender complementary attributes, not just the one I highlighted above.)
This has been going on in the Middle East for ages and as hyper unchecked "authority" (masculine trait according to my friend's hypothesis) crushes true "power" (feminine trait according to my friend) the apparent result in this case is small minded relationally deprived and ignorant fascists that do not value life or community.
God was so magnificent to create male and female, equally, in His image. They reflect God wonderfully within their own gender but together, they reflect God in a way that neither can do alone.
That's why, as a man, I find it horrific the way they treat women over there. It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe.
"I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated." You are right, this type of treatment has been occuring for longer than the Iranian government has been around. Essentially we are seeing, in many countries, the accumulation of hundreds (or thousands)of years of aligning their societies around the suppression of women.
"It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe." But if Muslim societies have erred on the side of too much male authority and enforced "modesty," which I think is really the enforced hiding of female beauty, then has our society adopted the opposite traditions and turned out right? I think that right now women have become completely obsessed with proving they are better than men (which is a silly and perhaps impossible thing to do) at the expense of both gender's happiness. And women have mistaken sex and sexiness for beauty, leading them to act in ways that are really damaging to them.
I completely agree with you on all points. Without complementary interdependence the war of the sexes will continue. Since we don't live in perfection until we are with Christ, we can look forward to allllll kinds of manifesting problems in all of humanity. Not just limited to the brief hypothetical glimpse of my bad paraphrase of a good friend as applied to the middle east.
We in the west have done the same disservice as those in the middle east in the sense that instead of head to toe isolation of the female image and oppressing her power, there is this head to toe sexual objectification of the female image (and the beginnings of the same for men.)
At the same time I would say that we in the West are better than the middle East with regard to complementarity interdependence. I don't know what you mean by "right" as a society...that is a big scope of a word where a large society can't be perfectly "right." That said we do have respected women in leadership on every level in public and private sectors. I think that is a great sign of a healthy society.
Plus, we in the west aren't just limited to men abusing women ... women can be abusive toward men too.
Anyway, didn't mean to get all into that but I am enjoying the conversation. Thanks Ellie.
First, I like your whole comment and point taken. In an attempt to briefly answer to your question... I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated.
A friend of mine, Janelle Hallman, once said that Biblical gender identity is very complex but one of the complementary attributes that women and men have toward each other is that women represent power and men authority.
One without the other is a tremendous societal force but they will never succeed (as a society) without the appreciation of each other distinctly and interdependently (with all gender complementary attributes, not just the one I highlighted above.)
This has been going on in the Middle East for ages and as hyper unchecked "authority" (masculine trait according to my friend's hypothesis) crushes true "power" (feminine trait according to my friend) the apparent result in this case is small minded relationally deprived and ignorant fascists that do not value life or community.
God was so magnificent to create male and female, equally, in His image. They reflect God wonderfully within their own gender but together, they reflect God in a way that neither can do alone.
That's why, as a man, I find it horrific the way they treat women over there. It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe.
"I actually think we are seeing what will happen to a society when the women are abused and mistreated." You are right, this type of treatment has been occuring for longer than the Iranian government has been around. Essentially we are seeing, in many countries, the accumulation of hundreds (or thousands)of years of aligning their societies around the suppression of women.
"It breaks my heart to see women tortured and walking about in black from head to toe." But if Muslim societies have erred on the side of too much male authority and enforced "modesty," which I think is really the enforced hiding of female beauty, then has our society adopted the opposite traditions and turned out right? I think that right now women have become completely obsessed with proving they are better than men (which is a silly and perhaps impossible thing to do) at the expense of both gender's happiness. And women have mistaken sex and sexiness for beauty, leading them to act in ways that are really damaging to them.
I completely agree with you on all points. Without complementary interdependence the war of the sexes will continue. Since we don't live in perfection until we are with Christ, we can look forward to allllll kinds of manifesting problems in all of humanity. Not just limited to the brief hypothetical glimpse of my bad paraphrase of a good friend as applied to the middle east.
We in the west have done the same disservice as those in the middle east in the sense that instead of head to toe isolation of the female image and oppressing her power, there is this head to toe sexual objectification of the female image (and the beginnings of the same for men.)
At the same time I would say that we in the West are better than the middle East with regard to complementarity interdependence. I don't know what you mean by "right" as a society...that is a big scope of a word where a large society can't be perfectly "right." That said we do have respected women in leadership on every level in public and private sectors. I think that is a great sign of a healthy society.
Plus, we in the west aren't just limited to men abusing women ... women can be abusive toward men too.
Anyway, didn't mean to get all into that but I am enjoying the conversation. Thanks Ellie.
"Plus, we in the west aren’t just limited to men abusing women … women can be abusive toward men too." That was one of my points. Because of feminism, it seems that the idea of competing with men, slurring and belittling them, and trying to get everything we can in order to make up for years of 'patriarchy.' has had a huge impact on the way young males view their role in our society. Witness the male:female ratio in college enrollment as one example.
Also, I would like to point out that this is proof that people can carry on a meaningful conversation about a topic on which they mostly agree. So many blogs wind up with huge arguments about controversial subjects and no comments on posts where it would be possible to have a positive conversation. Which is just depressing.
"Plus, we in the west aren’t just limited to men abusing women … women can be abusive toward men too." That was one of my points. Because of feminism, it seems that the idea of competing with men, slurring and belittling them, and trying to get everything we can in order to make up for years of 'patriarchy.' has had a huge impact on the way young males view their role in our society. Witness the male:female ratio in college enrollment as one example.
Also, I would like to point out that this is proof that people can carry on a meaningful conversation about a topic on which they mostly agree. So many blogs wind up with huge arguments about controversial subjects and no comments on posts where it would be possible to have a positive conversation. Which is just depressing.