DISQUS

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

There's a reason that charter company project greendot has managed to take over the bottom tier of LAUSD's high schools. The teacher's union fights it tooth and nail each time they apply to take over another school, but strangely enough the teachers tend to support it. Maybe it's partially because the district didn't manage to pay its teachers for three weeks last fall, and the union refuses to represent most of their teachers against the district.

But seriously, speaking as someone who goes to a school filled with students that are products of the Los Angeles education system, anything is better than what we've got going now.

Brady · 1 year ago

I don't know a lot about home schooling, and I don't know anything about the California public education system. But, I do know that I hear horror stories of the public education system nation wide, and I often have trouble following the logic. I graduated public high school 10 years ago, my younger brother 5 years ago. I know no one that went to a private high school, and I was very impressed with the education my friends and I all received.

As for the home school ruling, I read a bit of background, and it seems the court has said that the parents need to have teaching certifications or work with an institution or tutor that does. Meaning the parent may still do the instructing provided they are paired with an institution that helps provide lesson planning, etc. Rather than seeing this as an attempt at liberal courts to squash the little guy, I see it as an attempt to make sure home schooled children are actually receiving proper education.

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

Most people who home school their kids already do detailed lesson planning. The Abeka text book company, which is one of the most popular Christian text book companies, puts out text books that have optional texts for the parent that have detailed lesson plans built in. Abeka text books are also much more academically rigorous than, for example, the approved text books for the state of California. I know this because I work in a private school that has the option of choosing their text books. We often buy text books that have been rejected by the state because they're *too hard* for the students to understand, and the level of difficulty has been decreasing over the years.

Most home school families belong to home school co-ops that allow them to standardize curriculum, combine with other families for high school level courses that a particular parent may have an edge in teaching, and to provide a social network for their kids. Overall, in California home school kids tend to have better educations than kids in public schools. Which is unsurprising given the poor standards of most of the public schools.

Mike Ensley · 1 year ago

Having been a California resident for more than two decades, and having a mom who has been a public school teacher for most of that time, I am a bit familiar with these issues.

Teachers unions in California are out of control. From the time I was in grade school, I know that despite that my mother disagreed with a lot of the union's politics they were still able to dip into her wages without her consent. That's just one example, but I think it paints a pretty heinous picture all on its own.

The more that the government gets involved with parenting, the worse off kids will be. Requiring parents to have state-mandated (and probably union-controlled) certifications in order to teach their own children is wrong--and it's not about what's best for the children. It's about putting butts in the seats, which as Paul explained, translates into cash.

Ellie · 1 year ago

There's a reason that charter company project greendot has managed to take over the bottom tier of LAUSD's high schools. The teacher's union fights it tooth and nail each time they apply to take over another school, but strangely enough the teachers tend to support it. Maybe it's partially because the district didn't manage to pay its teachers for three weeks last fall, and the union refuses to represent most of their teachers against the district.
But seriously, speaking as someone who goes to a school filled with students that are products of the Los Angeles education system, anything is better than what we've got going now.

Brady · 1 year ago

Ellie,

I think the issue the courts would have with your statement is "most." It may be very true that most home schooled kids in California get great educations (and I have certainly seen nothing to contradict that), but to me it seems that without some sort of standart in place, it's too easy for the system to be abused...for parents not to do what they should in some cases.

As for the home school co-ops, my understanding of the decision is that a relationship with a co-op of that sort would fit the requirements of the court ruling.

Paul Webster · 1 year ago

Brady hits on one of the classic paradigms of public policy making that deprives individuals of liberty. That is, regulate everyone in case a few stray from the public good. This is truly the state of mind of California government but it is still too kind. In California it is all about power and money. Regulation is seen as a way to attack your ideological enemies and put their money in your pocket. This is so true of the California Teachers Association and its intolerance to anything that would weaken its power or provide a toe-hold for competition.

Teacher certification is not the issue. The issue is monopolistic control of education by the CTA. Why is it that getting a teaching degree or certification is valid in just about every state EXCEPT California where teachers with oodles of experience in other states are ineligible to teach in CA without a California certificate? It is the same kind of idiotic thinking that prohibits experts to teach without a teaching certificate.

The issue is not about certificates. It is about an individual's constitutional right to be educated in the way they best see fit. Regulated or not, certified by the government or not.

Brady · 1 year ago

I don't know a lot about home schooling, and I don't know anything about the California public education system. But, I do know that I hear horror stories of the public education system nation wide, and I often have trouble following the logic. I graduated public high school 10 years ago, my younger brother 5 years ago. I know no one that went to a private high school, and I was very impressed with the education my friends and I all received.
As for the home school ruling, I read a bit of background, and it seems the court has said that the parents need to have teaching certifications or work with an institution or tutor that does. Meaning the parent may still do the instructing provided they are paired with an institution that helps provide lesson planning, etc. Rather than seeing this as an attempt at liberal courts to squash the little guy, I see it as an attempt to make sure home schooled children are actually receiving proper education.

Ellie · 1 year ago

Most people who home school their kids already do detailed lesson planning. The Abeka text book company, which is one of the most popular Christian text book companies, puts out text books that have optional texts for the parent that have detailed lesson plans built in. Abeka text books are also much more academically rigorous than, for example, the approved text books for the state of California. I know this because I work in a private school that has the option of choosing their text books. We often buy text books that have been rejected by the state because they're *too hard* for the students to understand, and the level of difficulty has been decreasing over the years.
Most home school families belong to home school co-ops that allow them to standardize curriculum, combine with other families for high school level courses that a particular parent may have an edge in teaching, and to provide a social network for their kids. Overall, in California home school kids tend to have better educations than kids in public schools. Which is unsurprising given the poor standards of most of the public schools.

Mike Ensley · 1 year ago

Having been a California resident for more than two decades, and having a mom who has been a public school teacher for most of that time, I am a bit familiar with these issues.
Teachers unions in California are out of control. From the time I was in grade school, I know that despite that my mother disagreed with a lot of the union's politics they were still able to dip into her wages without her consent. That's just one example, but I think it paints a pretty heinous picture all on its own.
The more that the government gets involved with parenting, the worse off kids will be. Requiring parents to have state-mandated (and probably union-controlled) certifications in order to teach their own children is wrong--and it's not about what's best for the children. It's about putting butts in the seats, which as Paul explained, translates into cash.

Brady · 1 year ago

Ellie,
I think the issue the courts would have with your statement is "most." It may be very true that most home schooled kids in California get great educations (and I have certainly seen nothing to contradict that), but to me it seems that without some sort of standart in place, it's too easy for the system to be abused...for parents not to do what they should in some cases.
As for the home school co-ops, my understanding of the decision is that a relationship with a co-op of that sort would fit the requirements of the court ruling.

Paul Webster · 1 year ago

Brady hits on one of the classic paradigms of public policy making that deprives individuals of liberty. That is, regulate everyone in case a few stray from the public good. This is truly the state of mind of California government but it is still too kind. In California it is all about power and money. Regulation is seen as a way to attack your ideological enemies and put their money in your pocket. This is so true of the California Teachers Association and its intolerance to anything that would weaken its power or provide a toe-hold for competition.
Teacher certification is not the issue. The issue is monopolistic control of education by the CTA. Why is it that getting a teaching degree or certification is valid in just about every state EXCEPT California where teachers with oodles of experience in other states are ineligible to teach in CA without a California certificate? It is the same kind of idiotic thinking that prohibits experts to teach without a teaching certificate.
The issue is not about certificates. It is about an individual's constitutional right to be educated in the way they best see fit. Regulated or not, certified by the government or not.

B.T.Carolus · 1 year ago

I talked to a friend at the CFC. He told me that the family that was involved in the court case was definitely an example of a family that should not be homeschooling, and that they were not involved with any homeschooling group. Apparently this was a worst case scenario that was used to ram through the credential decision. He also said that the next day Gov. Schwarzenegger made a statement saying that if the Supreme court doesn't de-publish the legislature will pass new laws to fix the situation. My friend also tells me that the precedent set by this case could be used to prevent any non-credentialed person from teaching, including private school teachers, which could effectively shut down most of the private education in the state. Of course that's the teacher's union's dream.

Larry · 1 year ago

Home schooling is illegal in California. Most home schoolers are Christians and all they know to do is fearmonger. Just look at this as an example!

http://www.cftie.org/2007/12/sb-777-will-per.html

Ellie · 1 year ago

I talked to a friend at the CFC. He told me that the family that was involved in the court case was definitely an example of a family that should not be homeschooling, and that they were not involved with any homeschooling group. Apparently this was a worst case scenario that was used to ram through the credential decision. He also said that the next day Gov. Schwarzenegger made a statement saying that if the Supreme court doesn't de-publish the legislature will pass new laws to fix the situation. My friend also tells me that the precedent set by this case could be used to prevent any non-credentialed person from teaching, including private school teachers, which could effectively shut down most of the private education in the state. Of course that's the teacher's union's dream.

Larry · 1 year ago

Home schooling is illegal in California. Most home schoolers are Christians and all they know to do is fearmonger. Just look at this as an example!
http://www.cftie.org/2007/12/sb-777-will-per.html

Randy · 1 year ago

Yikes.

Paul Webster · 1 year ago

Larry, I disagree with most of your comment. First, homeschooling is not illegal in California - one appeals court judge has attempted to make it illegal, but his word is not the final word. Second, it is true that the majority of homeschoolers are Christians but that does not militate against the value of homeschooling. Many people homeschool for a variety of reasons, not just religious values. Third, while fearmongering is a widely practiced hobby among Christians, Christians do a lot of other things besides fearmongering. There is gossiping, lying, slandering, and, oh, overgeneralizing. I took a look at the link and was confused about the video. Was it pro or con about SB 777? The text was pretty biased and not very thoughtful. Good thing you know about ETC to balance out this poor example of issue advocacy.

Randy · 1 year ago

Yikes.

Paul Webster · 1 year ago

Larry, I disagree with most of your comment. First, homeschooling is not illegal in California - one appeals court judge has attempted to make it illegal, but his word is not the final word. Second, it is true that the majority of homeschoolers are Christians but that does not militate against the value of homeschooling. Many people homeschool for a variety of reasons, not just religious values. Third, while fearmongering is a widely practiced hobby among Christians, Christians do a lot of other things besides fearmongering. There is gossiping, lying, slandering, and, oh, overgeneralizing. I took a look at the link and was confused about the video. Was it pro or con about SB 777? The text was pretty biased and not very thoughtful. Good thing you know about ETC to balance out this poor example of issue advocacy.

Jonathan · 1 year ago

I don't see that this ruling is a bad thing. Doesn't it just reinforce a 1950s law that states that children in the State of California (my home state) must have their children enrolled in (i) public school; (ii) an accredited private school or (iii) with an accredited tutor? What's the problem?

I am the product of homeschooling. I had an amazing teacher - my mother. Of course, she also has a degree in education (and at the time was an accredited teacher in the State we lived in). Seriously, the combination of a teacher who profoundly cared about me and my siblings and who took education seriously helped produce three adults who cherish learning. Unfortunately, my experience within the homeschooling movement has shown that there are a bunch of parents who are uneducated and unskilled and acting as if, simply because they had the ability to give birth to children, that they can somehow teach them all they need to know to excel in this life. It's like saying that one is a good parent simply because they gave birth to a child. It just isn't so. I should also note that my father was the principle of a Christian school for many years as well before entering the pastorate. Education, Christian education, was a big deal in my home.

My little guy is 9 years old and in the 4th grade. He attends a blue-ribbon public elementary school here in the State of California. He's receiving a great education. I know, because we monitor it actively. Were we to perceive that his educational experience was not up to what we consider par, we would pull him from said school and put him into a private school that placed a strong emphasis on education. He would not be homeschooled though because (i) I am not a teacher and (ii) I am smart enough to realize I am not a teacher.

j.

Jonathan · 1 year ago

I don't see that this ruling is a bad thing. Doesn't it just reinforce a 1950s law that states that children in the State of California (my home state) must have their children enrolled in (i) public school; (ii) an accredited private school or (iii) with an accredited tutor? What's the problem?
I am the product of homeschooling. I had an amazing teacher - my mother. Of course, she also has a degree in education (and at the time was an accredited teacher in the State we lived in). Seriously, the combination of a teacher who profoundly cared about me and my siblings and who took education seriously helped produce three adults who cherish learning. Unfortunately, my experience within the homeschooling movement has shown that there are a bunch of parents who are uneducated and unskilled and acting as if, simply because they had the ability to give birth to children, that they can somehow teach them all they need to know to excel in this life. It's like saying that one is a good parent simply because they gave birth to a child. It just isn't so. I should also note that my father was the principle of a Christian school for many years as well before entering the pastorate. Education, Christian education, was a big deal in my home.
My little guy is 9 years old and in the 4th grade. He attends a blue-ribbon public elementary school here in the State of California. He's receiving a great education. I know, because we monitor it actively. Were we to perceive that his educational experience was not up to what we consider par, we would pull him from said school and put him into a private school that placed a strong emphasis on education. He would not be homeschooled though because (i) I am not a teacher and (ii) I am smart enough to realize I am not a teacher.
j.