ETC: Everyday Thoughts Collected - Latest Comments in Sixteen Years Ago

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:53:11 -0000

One friend compares it to having an accent after learning a new language. That's simplistic but bears witness with my experience.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

5233 — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:44:08 -0000

Yeah, thanks for replying.

I can understand what you're saying, and I was thinking that too. Because they learned these behaviors, they can still have a tendency to act that way even after rejecting a gay lifestyle and identity.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Randy — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:11:53 -0000

Thanks for saying it isn't personally about me but as a guy and as a guy who used to be gay and as a guy who used to be gay who still has feminine affectations ... it is about me too.

Not all guys who identify as gay have feminine characteristics. There is a wide spectrum. And the reasons for it are multi-causal. Temperment, how they learned to communicate, possible gender ambivalence or detachment, definition of masculine may be wrong or simply different than yours ... so much. The danger is in reducing a man to his appearance and qualities that irritate instead of seeing him for all that he is.

I know quite a few men that the world would dismiss as "queens" or still "queeny" even if they have turned away from a gay worldview. Some of these men are more of a "man" than their critics.

I had zero definition of what was masculine or not until after I became a Christian and realized that there was a purpose for God creating gender. My feminine characteristics were because I was surrounded with and only communicated with women for the first 9 or so years of my life. Plus, again, I had no counterbalance in a Dad or peers. When I was gay I hyped it up to get attention but now that I am not I can still be a ham but I hope not in a negative way.

I may die with my affectations still around and I am quite ok with it.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

5233 — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:36:08 -0000

I'm not saying anything against you personally, but that comment that person made kind of lead me to think about why gay guys tend to have feminine characteristics (if they were not born that way, a theory of which I am skeptical of). On TV we see the stereotypical thin gay guys with nicely plucked eyebrows and stylish haircuts. Do you think their lack of a masculine appearance early on in life bolstered their identity and desire to adhere and emphasize on a less masculine appearance later?

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

5233 — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 02:09:18 -0000

It's a random number I made up years ago for anonymity.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Randy Thomas — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:10:41 -0000

I am very glad to hear that. Out of curiousity... did you pick 5233 as a name or is that something automatic if you don't fill that form in? Not complaining but I think you are the first number to start commenting here :-)

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

5233 — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:00:01 -0000

Yeah, I wasn't trying to insult you, dude. They're terms for different graphical or text based chat and roleplaying clients. MMORPG for example = massively multiplayer online role-playing game.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Randy Thomas — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:06:42 -0000

I don't know what MUCK, MUD or any of that stuff is so role-playing usually means one thing. Glad it wasn't that and thank you for clarifying.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Randy Thomas — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:05:38 -0000

If you haven't, you may want to read my discussion policy linked underneath the blog banner. I will respond further on the second comment.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

5233 — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:50:52 -0000

I meant of course like literally roleplaying on a chat, MUCK, MUD or MMORPG or whatever. Heh.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

5233 — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:36:17 -0000

Hey, why was my post deleted? I was jokingly reffering to this: ::: as masculine as I can make it chuckle, taking my hand off my hip while looking sternly through my incredible eyelashes :::

Wasn't trying to be offensive, what the heck?

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Randy Thomas — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:53:56 -0000

I think Eric DiDia (on Facebook) has it on his facebook video area.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Iceclaw — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:45:12 -0000

I'd like to see the actual video if anyone has a mirror of the youtube clip somewhere :)

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Jay Schlosser — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:43:34 -0000

Alex,

Why do you say its "tragic" to think someone wants to change their life and choices. It is really no different than someone who has a habit they dont like, a drinking problem, or porn addiction. I have had several of these issues in my own life. Why is it that we can on one side be so "open" and honest - and then when someone wants to make a different way for themselves - choose to walk a different life - a different way of thinking - its tragic?

Why is it that openness/living free cannot be for everyone?

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:25:59 -0000

Thank you very much Jay for your very nice encouragement.

I am not surprised that it was eventually taken off. A lot of news programs don't like their clips being used on youtube. The MSM is very much money driven and they actually sell those clips (so I have heard.) So, while the reporter was very cool, I am sure the editors are too ... it could very well be that the station caught wind of the clip and asked for it's removal.

Or... sometimes YouTube is just flakey and it will start working again later.

Thank you again for the very nice note.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Jay Schlosser — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:57:24 -0000

Randy,

I want to express to you how grateful I am that your in the world. Im grateful God has raised you up, set you free, and given you a vision and ministry for the lost. You are such an example to me as a man that also HAD a gay identity. You say what I feel. You have paved the way (as so many others have as well). I too believe God is raising me up for "such a time as this"! I look forward to the days ahead.

THANK YOU MY BROTHER!

PS Why is the YOUTUBE video in this blog not working? Did they make sure it would not work due to the "nature" of the topic?
Jay Schlosser
Jer. 17:7

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:27:08 -0000

@Alex - Another thought ... you say

Choosing not to have sex with men and choosing not to identify with the gay subculture doesn’t change a thing about who I am?—?merely what I do. At the end of the day, I will always be homosexual.

My guess is that this is another example of gay ideology ... you say you "are" and always will be partly (others would say completely) defined by your attractions (as homosexual).

I believe homosexuality is something that might change partly or completley but regardless of my sexual proclivities changing or not changing, they don't define any part of my primary identity or worldview.

Who I am completely changed even though I never envisioned the possibility or what it would look like today. And if my goals stay the same and I abide in Christ, they won't define who I am or how I behave in the future either.

by not having sex with men and not identifying as gay *my* life completely changed for the better. I "changed" and am changing in many ways before, during and after the sexual orientation shifts that have occurred in my life.

I believe that what we do is directly linked with who we think we are and what our goals and vision for the future hold.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:18:23 -0000

@Alex -
Alex, thank you for your opinion but I doubt you honestly think a person's life can be adequately portrayed in a 4 minute nightly news spot.

Speaking on behalf of myself, I was an "out and proud" gay man ... who in my heart was never satisfied even though I said the exact same things you are saying. I challenged everything I believed and knew by placing my faith in Christ and questioning fundamental assumptions. I didn't "run for the hills." I am standing right in front of you unashamed of who I was and am.

I was gay and now I am not. Thousands of others can say the same.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Alex — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:57:12 -0000

Randy,

Thanks for explaining what you mean by "gay ideology." I disagree with several parts, however, and it saddens me that people need to identify with any ideology, whether gay, ex-gay, Christian, or whatever, in order to feel whole and important. I do not fit many of the criteria you mentioned as part of "gay ideology," yet I'm still gay (insofar as "gay" means "homosexual," without any sociopolitical connotations).

Choosing not to have sex with men and choosing not to identify with the gay subculture doesn't change a thing about who I am -- merely what I do. At the end of the day, I will always be homosexual. And people like the gentleman in the video, who have one negative experience with being gay and run for the hills, are just kidding themselves. Just because you had one bad relationship doesn't mean you should or can try to change who you are. I doubt a heterosexual man would say, "The first and only girl I've ever dated turned out to be a lying cheater who just used me for sex. I can only assume that this is what all straight relationships are like, so from now on I'm going to date men." It's silly and, in my opinion, tragic.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:13:26 -0000

@Truth and Reason - Thank you TR. I will check out your post.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Truth and Reason — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:04:28 -0000

Congrats Randy. This is truly a wonderful testimony.

I've been politely debating a gay Christian on one of my posts. Any comments you could contribute would be welcome.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:46:15 -0000

@Sarah - Thanks for sharing your story Sarah!

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Janey — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:03:07 -0000

This was a good read.

16 years is a long time...

I liked what you said, "I came out of the closet to discover I was in the wrong house," That's a good one. :)

For me, I had this crazy idea thinking I was the first in nearly 2000 years to have this revelation...that I didn't have to be gay. At the time I was 14 years old.

And that was 16 yrs ago!

But my journey didn't involve a wonderful blissful time of seriouse committment.

Just shortly after my experience with the Lord I saw an interview with John and Anne Paulk on Oprah. It was then I had found out about Exodus and LWO.

My journey included a seriouse conversion in my youth and then even went to Bible College. I came to struggle with the fact that healing and freedom hadn't been coming on my terms and in my time frame and so I decided to say, "well, I tried the Christian life and it's not for me and it didn't work for me,"

When I came back and re-surrendered my life to the Lord I thought back to all my experiences and times with the Lord when He really did show up.

It was 2005 the summer I applied to be a participant in the Living Waters program.

I told myself 2 things...

1. I tried everything but Living Waters (and)
2. Christianity isn't something I try on to see if it fits...

Meaning, I had this revelation that my journey had little to do with God actually removing my same-sex desires and everything to do with God revealing to me who He intended me to be and my journey would be a process of discovering who He created me to be as a woman created in His image.

And well, I guess if God works in me so much where He makes a heterosexual relationship possible I'm open to that. However, I'm quite content single and I've been committed to being single for 11 years now. I don't regret that decision at all!

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

RThomasETC — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:02:14 -0000

@Karen Booth -
Karen, thank you very much for the helpful comment. I deleted the reference to where you saw the link because of a personal policy of mine to not promote them in any way on my blog ... nothing personal.

LOVE the helpful information though. Thank you. We posted around the same time so I hope my response is helpful. There is only so much one can do in a blog comment.

Re: Sixteen Years Ago

Karen Booth — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:27:46 -0000

I just logged on to this discussion after seeing the link at ::: edit :::. I am put in mind of the two broad worldviews Mark Yarhouse has identified in his research into sexual identity. This is an oversimplification, but individuals he has counseled tended to embrace either a “discovery” or “integration” metaphor in their experience of same-sex attraction.

In the “discovery” metaphor (which is the predominant cultural model, at least in the mainstream media), same-sex attraction is experienced and through a natural process of self-discovery (not always smooth) homosexual orientation and LGBT identity is realized, understood and adopted. Experience – attraction and behavior – and identity/being are collapsed into one complete whole; there is little feeling of “choice” involved, and (often) anyone who doesn’t follow this natural progression is considered to be “in the closet” or in denial. (Many of the comments Wayne Besen has made in his writings assume this worldview.) Yarhouse also noted that if there was a conflict with religious training or conviction, beliefs typically morphed to align with experience.

In the “integration” metaphor, same-sex attraction is not interpreted as a natural (or welcome) progression and the individual chooses how to respond to and integrate these experiences into his/her life. If there was conflict with religious training or conviction, usually, but not always, behavior was modified to align with belief.

In a presentation Yarhouse did for my ministry this spring in Fort Worth, he used some graphics to support his theories (which I don’t remember exactly, so the following figures are an estimate) that showed roughly 6-7% of those surveyed in the US experienced same-sex attraction at some time in their lives. Fewer reported having a homosexual orientation. Fewer still identified as LGBT.

I don’t know what Randy and others mean by “gay ideology.” But I think these two fundamentally different worldviews are at the heart of this and the broader religious and cultural discussions. And I don’t see much in the way of common ground.

Randy, praise God for your anniversary! You’re one of my favorite men of God.