Agreed. My personal experience in the lifestyle was a godless group of people. I also read the book by Mr. Besen and even he stated in his book that the gay community needs to do more to allow for those gays who do have some kind of faith and let their voice be heard. I have met some gays who do have a faith in Christ and I have had some recent discussions with some gays who have a faith in Christ. I think this is definitely the smaller number in the group.
Randy
· 4 months ago
Yeah, I wonder about Wayne's motivation for doing so. He likes to try and redefine or confuse the language of those he considers his opponents. He might be giving gay people who have faith props because in the end he thinks it will divide and conquer the rest of us.
But then maybe he has a faith perspective I haven't seen expressed before.
Peter
· 4 months ago
I have said this before, but it's worth saying here. I think that the reaction of certain gay people to Christianity is more defensive than offensive. When you have people identified as Christians telling gay people: "God Hates Fags" or "you're going to burn in Hell" or even "your lifestyle is an abomination according to God," the natural human reaction is to reject this group -- and thus Christ. And there are people who put it nicely, such as many people on this blog, but ultimately when you tell someone there is something wrong with what is a fundamental and immutable part of who they are, they are bound to react negatively. I know that (obviously) y'all don't think it is a "fundamental and immutable party of who they are," but that's the core of the issue. Before they can understand where you are coming from, they have to accept your premise that they can change or overcome their sexuality, and not only that, but if they can change, that they should.
Oh, and isn't the study about all faiths? I think many gays who reject Chrisitanity have found solace in other faiths, such as Buddhism or some New-Age philosophical religions. I'd note that this is a trend with most liberals, not just gay (liberals).
Btw, I have the opposite experience as most of you. My entire life (since high school!) all my gay friends were full of faith and still are. I am one of the few Quakers among them, but there are definitely devout Cahtholics, Protestants, and a few Buddhists. Maybe y'all ran in the wrong circles. ;-)
All in all, I'm just happy that y'all are happy now. I truly believe that if you can find the joy of God in abstaining from homosexual relationships, then that is most certainly what's best for you. I do not judge that decision.
Randy
· 4 months ago
Peter, again, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have to say though that I while I agree that in the past most of the hostile reaction was defensive because Chrsitians were being offensive. However, there is a point where the "right to defend" crosses the line to feeling one has the right to offend.
Peter
· 4 months ago
Oh, I agree 100%.
I feel like the most vehemently anti-Christian people is a certain class of liberals to which many gay people belong, but it is most certainly not only gay people, or even majoritarily so. Bill Maher and people of that ilk come to mind.
Randy
· 4 months ago
... it is most certainly not only gay people,
I know that is why I included:
...A number of my friends (gay identified or not) I ran around with, back in the day, were definitely hedonistic and bashed Christians...
Our culture is sliding toward Christian bashing and hedonism as a whole, not just some of those who identify as gay.
Lee
· 4 months ago
And offend they should. If you think you have been saved by the creator of the world then why be offended? The fact that some are offended says more about what they believe that those who offend them.
Henry
· 4 months ago
I found the article interesting. However it doesn't address a few points. Such as when did a gay person's faith start? Was it at childhood prior to getting active in the gay lifestyle or at a later time as a gay adult. I believe that many "gay Christians" carried over their faith from childhood but may have a dissonance between childhood teachings and their current faith and sexuality. (RE: Beson - isn't he an ex-ex-gay that used to be part of an Exodus-type / parachurch Christian ministry?)
Age of the respondents also would matter. The survey doesn't address this characteristic.
People today, be it Fundamentalist Christians or liberal gays, have a tendency to lump people in opposing camps into one stereotype. They forget that people are individuals. For instance some gays are Republicans (i.e. Log Cabin Republicans) and even some fundamentalist Christians may end up in hell due to lack of a true-faith commitment to God....gasp! Titles and denominations don't save, Jesus does.
Many forget that people have to grow in their faith. Yes there is usually one defining moment, but growth and holiness is a process. People can have a saving faith bit still struggle with whatever sin entangles them.
Another point from the survey is that the number of gay participants(280) is relatively small compared to the heterosexual group (8545). Also I believe they asked people to self identify as bi-sexual, however I didn't see any place where their stats are mentioned.
Statistics are nice to get a broad picture, but can be skewed by the wording of the questions and the locality of the respondents. People from the South (both gay or heterosexual) would probably answer differently than from the Northeast or California. Yes, I do realize this was a nationwide poll, but a predominance geographically speaking can change the results.
Randy
· 4 months ago
(RE: Beson – isn’t he an ex-ex-gay that used to be part of an Exodus-type / parachurch Christian ministry?)
His last name is spelled "Benson" ... Dwayne Benson ... JUST kidding. His name is Wayne Besen and I don't think so. I think I remember him saying that someone (his parents?) gave him some tapes when he was younger and it flipped him out. If he had been an actual part of Exodus I would know that and he wasn't.
Thanks for adding your insights here on the blog. They are very helpful.
Di5
· 4 months ago
I am not really understanding your answer or the statistic regarding Satan. My take was to feel sad that this belief has lessened. He was God's finest created being. After his fall, we as saints are very much cautioned to put on the full armor of God against him, to realize that we wrestle with the supernatural forces of wickedness-Satan and his demonic angels. Jesus even recognized Satan using others in his life-Peter, so we should be just as on guard, using divine power, keeping ourselves holy and ready with scripture. And we are responsible when he gets a foothold in our lives, I am agreeing that we must look at our responsibilities. Even God himself is being lessened as supernatural by a lot of Americans.
Cheryl
· 4 months ago
I also found the belief in Satan stat interesting. I think it reveals a basic lack of education. But that last stat is disturbing.
Cheryl
· 4 months ago
p.s. I love your new blog look, Randy. It must be one of your drawings.
Randy
· 4 months ago
Thank you Cheryl. Yes, the background is one of my drawings turned into a graphic by a friend of mine named Adam.
All Comments
New blog post: Barna Study on Gay and Heterosexual Christians http://bit.ly/2EDpwU
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
RT @RThomasETC: New blog post: Barna Study on Gay and Heterosexual Christians http://bit.ly/2EDpwU
This comment was originally posted on Twitter
But then maybe he has a faith perspective I haven't seen expressed before.
Oh, and isn't the study about all faiths? I think many gays who reject Chrisitanity have found solace in other faiths, such as Buddhism or some New-Age philosophical religions. I'd note that this is a trend with most liberals, not just gay (liberals).
Btw, I have the opposite experience as most of you. My entire life (since high school!) all my gay friends were full of faith and still are. I am one of the few Quakers among them, but there are definitely devout Cahtholics, Protestants, and a few Buddhists. Maybe y'all ran in the wrong circles. ;-)
All in all, I'm just happy that y'all are happy now. I truly believe that if you can find the joy of God in abstaining from homosexual relationships, then that is most certainly what's best for you. I do not judge that decision.
I feel like the most vehemently anti-Christian people is a certain class of liberals to which many gay people belong, but it is most certainly not only gay people, or even majoritarily so. Bill Maher and people of that ilk come to mind.
I know that is why I included:
Our culture is sliding toward Christian bashing and hedonism as a whole, not just some of those who identify as gay.
Age of the respondents also would matter. The survey doesn't address this characteristic.
People today, be it Fundamentalist Christians or liberal gays, have a tendency to lump people in opposing camps into one stereotype. They forget that people are individuals. For instance some gays are Republicans (i.e. Log Cabin Republicans) and even some fundamentalist Christians may end up in hell due to lack of a true-faith commitment to God....gasp! Titles and denominations don't save, Jesus does.
Many forget that people have to grow in their faith. Yes there is usually one defining moment, but growth and holiness is a process. People can have a saving faith bit still struggle with whatever sin entangles them.
Another point from the survey is that the number of gay participants(280) is relatively small compared to the heterosexual group (8545). Also I believe they asked people to self identify as bi-sexual, however I didn't see any place where their stats are mentioned.
Statistics are nice to get a broad picture, but can be skewed by the wording of the questions and the locality of the respondents. People from the South (both gay or heterosexual) would probably answer differently than from the Northeast or California. Yes, I do realize this was a nationwide poll, but a predominance geographically speaking can change the results.
His last name is spelled "Benson" ... Dwayne Benson ... JUST kidding. His name is Wayne Besen and I don't think so. I think I remember him saying that someone (his parents?) gave him some tapes when he was younger and it flipped him out. If he had been an actual part of Exodus I would know that and he wasn't.
Thanks for adding your insights here on the blog. They are very helpful.